Good evening. Don’t you ever go home? Aren’t you sleepy? It’s almost midnight.
Prime Minister, the Ukrainian president has mentioned Hungary several times, in a not very positive way. You avoided each other just now. What would you expect from Ukraine in order to improve Hungarian–Ukrainian relations?
There’s a reason for the difference of opinion: this conflict isn’t without foundation. First of all, it’s in the Ukrainians’ interest to involve as many countries as possible in the war. This isn’t good for us, and we don’t want to get involved in this war. But at the same time we understand that when you’re at war, it’s good for you to have as many countries as possible on your side. But Hungary has experienced world war, and we don’t want to go to war again – nor will we. So we suggest to the Ukrainians that instead we try peace negotiations, and we can help with that. We won’t send troops, we won’t send weapons, we won’t give money, but we’re happy to help bring about peace negotiations. That’s one conflict. Another conflict is about Ukraine’s future. They envision Ukraine’s future as membership of the European Union. But Ukraine is a country whose eastern border is unknown today, and it’s at war. And whether it will be at war with Russia after a ceasefire, perhaps in the coming years, is not for him to decide – or not only for him, but also for the Russians. And I wouldn’t like Hungary to be a member of an alliance whose newly admitted member is constantly living under the threat of war and could drag us into it at any time; because I can say now that the Ukrainian–Russian war is not our war, but if the Ukrainians become members of the Union, then it will become our war – and that’s something we don’t want. This is quite apart from the fact that Ukraine’s situation due to the war would suck up and drain from Europe the money that’s needed here in Europe – for example in Hungary – for economic development. So that’s the second conflict. And the third conflict is that, in my opinion, the Hungarians in Transcarpathia are being treated badly. Up until 2015 there was a law and a practice that was accepted and embraced by the Hungarians living there, who felt that it created the conditions for maintaining their cultural and linguistic identity. But in 2015 that law was repealed, there were changes, and all sorts of new things were introduced; and Hungarian schools, the use of the Hungarian language, and Hungarian communities are now in danger. The Hungarian state cannot tolerate this. This is the third reason we don’t have afternoon meetings with President Zelenskyy.
Prime Minister, what did you bring here in your knapsack from the Peace March in Budapest? How did it feel to arrive here at the EU summit? And regarding the frozen Russian assets, how do you see events unfolding? What’s the message of this?
Well, it’s been a busy day. I was writing a speech in the morning, I gave a speech in the early afternoon, and by late afternoon I was already debating here. First I consulted with [Slovakian] Prime Minister Robert Fico, who represented Hungary’s national interests vigorously and honourably while we were celebrating our national holiday. He read out the relevant passages from our letter to make it clear that Hungary doesn’t support the start of negotiations on Ukraine’s EU membership today, and that we won’t support any financial measures that would take Hungarian money out of the country or put it at risk in Ukraine or in connection with Ukraine. So first of all I discussed all this with the Prime Minister. Then I took part in the debate on frozen Russian assets, which is a very complex issue. The essence of this is that a significant portion of Russia’s foreign exchange reserves are located here in Europe. Europe provides a service to the world – not only to the Russians, but also to the Arabs and the Chinese – by holding and managing the currency reserves of other nations here on a commercial and contractual basis. And these are assets held in trust. The first big question is that if they touch any amount deposited here that doesn’t belong to the EU but to a non-EU state, and withdraw it, moreover in a manner that’s dubious in terms of international law, then that will shake the confidence of all those making financial investments in Europe, and then this business will collapse. This is a huge business: European companies earn a lot of money from it, and it’s in the European Union’s interest that this industry doesn’t die – because Europe is competing to catch up with the dollar as a global currency, and later, if possible, to overtake it. That’s one problem. There’s another problem. This week I exchanged letters – I don’t know if this was reported in the Hungarian press – with the Russian president. I did this in the form of a letter, because I wanted a record of it. I asked whether there would be any countermeasures: if the EU did this, how the Russians would respond. They wrote back in legal language, but it was very clear that they’d take countermeasures. This means that corporate assets in Russia could be in trouble. Several companies from Hungary – including large, strategic Hungarian companies – have significant assets in Russia, and I don’t want to put those at risk. In fact I believe that the Hungarian prime minister must not risk these assets being seized, scalped, or confiscated as a countermeasure in response to a decision made in Brussels. So there’s also this aspect to it. And there’s a third aspect, which is that it wouldn’t be good practice for the European Union to jump into an adventure, stand by Ukraine, declare the Ukrainian–Russian war to be its own war without having the money to do so, and instead of seeking peace, confiscate someone else’s money to continue the war. Where will this end? So this is a complicated issue, and Hungary isn’t in a position to support the text adopted today. So twenty-six countries have adopted a text here, and Hungary is not part of that.
Prime Minister, this morning one of your counterparts, the Latvian prime minister, told Mandiner that although the Budapest peace summit has been cancelled, Europe must be ready for a Budapest peace summit to take place. Do you think Europe is ready?
I don’t know, but the Budapest peace summit is on the agenda. Let’s remember how the Middle East peace summit came about: I received a letter on Saturday evening saying that it would be on Monday. So negotiations like this depend on clearly identifiable issues. There are three or four issues on which the Americans and Russians have been unable to agree, but they’re in constant talks and could reach an agreement at any time. And if they do reach an agreement, then such a peace conference can be brought to fruition very quickly. So in Hungary, we’re in a kind of – how should I put it – standby mode. We have a preparatory working group that’s working on the venue, security, and a lot of technical issues; so the working group preparing for the peace summit is working in Hungary. Europe shouldn’t be on standby for Russian–American negotiations, but in my opinion it should initiate negotiations with the Russians. So we should do exactly what the American president is doing, now that he’s broken the ice. Previously, Westerners wouldn’t talk to the Russians. Arguments could be made for this, but now that’s over. The American president has broken the ice, and there’s direct, personal contact between the American president and the Russian president. I don’t understand why there isn’t the same level of contact and diplomatic relations between the European Union and Russia – it’s beyond me. In my opinion, if we don’t want to be excluded from decisions concerning Europe, we must be present at the negotiations – not by begging to be allowed to participate in others’ negotiations, but by initiating negotiations and diplomatic actions in our own right.
Prime Minister, this morning the Ukrainian president emphasised the importance of sanctions, as did most European leaders. And some even went so far as to say that Europe is ready for action and must play its part in the conflict. What’s your opinion on this, given that this is the nineteenth package of sanctions? And how committed to peace do you think the US president is, and how patient?
That last question should be put to him. As for the sanctions package, it was preceded by weeks of negotiations, and we removed everything from it that was bad for Hungary. This is a sanctions package that continues the sanctions policy, and which is fundamentally flawed – but this package doesn’t affect Hungary negatively. We always negotiate so that even if there are new sanction packages, they won’t have a negative impact on Hungary. As for the basic situation itself, there are all kinds of calculations, but I think that so far the Hungarian economy has lost between 20 and 30 billion euros due to the war. So if there had been no war, the Hungarian economy would be about that much bigger today. From this it clearly follows that it’s in the interest of every Hungarian family – not the Hungarian state and its budget, but every Hungarian family and every Hungarian small and medium-sized enterprise – that peace be achieved as soon as possible, that money doesn’t go to Ukraine, and that the Hungarian economy and the economies of the rest of the EU aren’t blocked by sanctions. This is in everyone’s interest. It’s a matter of money, a family and financial issue. I’d like Hungarian families to see this not as a diplomatic move or a diplomatic statement on my part, but specifically as a diplomatic move taken in the financial interests of Hungarian families.
Prime Minister, this afternoon a photo of the Peace March and a photo of Péter Magyar’s Tisza Party event was posted on your Facebook page, with the comment that “There were twice as many of us”. I don’t know if you saw any later photos of the Tisza event, Prime Minister, but in light of that, do you still think the math adds up?
I can only speak about our own event, because I was there. It was huge – bigger than anything I’ve ever seen.
On the day commemorating the uprising against Soviet oppression, why did you decide in your speech to name Brussels as the oppressor and warmonger, and not even mention Moscow?
That’s incorrect – please read it again. I’m sorry, I don’t want to promote my own speech, but we talked about the collapse of the Soviet Empire and the Soviets throughout.
But why didn’t you talk about the current aggression?
Because we want peace.
Prime Minister, yesterday the Strasbourg plenary session voted on the 2026 budget, and hundreds of amendments were passed. The Fidesz representatives were against it, but the DK [Democratic Coalition] and Tisza Party MEPs voted in favour of Europe having a pro-migration and pro-war budget in 2026. How do you assess all this?
Well, financial measures are being planned for the coming years, and according to these, the European Parliament has already decided to transfer Europeans’ money to Ukraine. There are various estimates for that, ranging from 15 to 25 per cent of the EU budget in the coming years. Instead of remaining in Europe to strengthen the European economy, this money will go to Ukraine. As far as migration is concerned, this is somehow not at the forefront of Hungarian public opinion, but it’s important to know that they want to bring the Migration Pact into force sometime at the end of 2026 or the beginning of 2027. The Migration Pact poses a deadly threat to Hungary. We are currently the only migrant-free country in Europe. If they push us into it, if they force us to accept the Migration Pact, two things will happen. First, Hungary will have to build facilities with a capacity for 30,000 migrants, buildings that can accommodate them all at the same time. So they want us to build a migrant camp, and they’ve decided how big each country’s camp should be. And we have a quota of 30,000. So the European Union wants us to build a migrant camp system in Hungary that can accommodate 30,000 migrants. And the second thing that will happen is that if a migration emergency arises in the European Union, the decision on the distribution of migrants arriving in the EU will be made by the European Commission, not Hungary, not the Hungarian people. They’ll distribute them and send them to us. This is why they’re building – or want us to build – migrant ghettos, so that then they can send the migrants there. So this isn’t what Hungarian politics is focusing on right now, because the war is more important, but we must keep the migrant issue on the agenda, and we should be clear that we’ll have to continue resisting in the coming years; because Hungary rejects the Migrant Pact, we don’t accept it, and we shall not implement it. We’ll pay a penalty for this, but the penalty is still better than having tens of thousands of migrants sent to us.
Ursula von der Leyen...
The last, if possible.
...in connection with her defence preparedness plan, can Hungary hold out – both against the drive for war, and against the federalists?
I think she’s managed to develop a sensible position on that. What are we talking about? We’re talking about the fact that it’s clear that there may be situations in which the military and security considerations and decisions of the United States differ from those of the countries of the European Union. If everyone always agreed, meaning that transatlantic unity was guaranteed, then NATO would be sufficient for the security of European states. But now we have an example that shows that this isn’t necessarily the case. And so here we are, because Europe doesn’t have an organised, coordinated European defence policy or defence development path that’s independent of NATO – and nor does it have coordinated military capabilities. This needs to be created. That’s the basic situation. What we’ve decided, and I think it’s a good decision, is that we won’t give the Commission any rights in this regard: the Commission will have nothing to do with it. We’ve kept the coordination of the defence industry and defence policy within national spheres of competence, within the competences of the Member States, and we’ve designated an institution to coordinate this work. Therefore: federalists lose, nationalists win. I’m leaving now, thank you very much. Good night!