Zoltán Szalai: American media star Tucker Carlson has held the first Tucker Carlson Summit in Dubai, on the sidelines of the World Governments Summit international conference. Why wasn’t the event held in Europe, and why did you attend?
I thought a lot about whether I should go. The return trip takes half a day, you go on stage, do the work and then come home. And I was going to miss the Fradi [Ferencváros] game... So it was a difficult decision; and there’s a lot of work to do at home. But Tucker Carlson has a lot more power in shaping public opinion in the West, and in informing it, than we accord to a journalist. In the American public sphere there are some personalities who sit somewhere between the decision-makers and the journalists. Even the word “influencer” doesn’t apply to them: they’re more like opinion-makers, people with power. Hungary is a country of ten million people, with a gross domestic product that’s as big as it is; and yet these people are interested in what’s happening in Hungary. This was an unrepeatable opportunity to show them what’s happening here. This is why I decided to accept the invitation, because I would be helping Hungary. Of course, you might ask why he didn’t come to Europe instead. But what’s far more obvious in America, and far less obvious seen from Hungary, is that everything is changing. We Hungarians are still “inside” European history, which we believe is the mainstream of world history. This was true for a long time, and we learned it at school. Back then, Europe was the world’s largest economy; today it’s only the third largest. We must come to realise that this era is over and that unfortunately Europe is in a period of descent – it’s out of breath, it’s lost its vitality. It’s in desperate need of a new nutrient to restore growth to its muscles, to refresh its spirit. Meanwhile, elsewhere in the world, regions that were once far behind Europe are emerging as major areas of muscle growth. The future is in the Arab world, China and Central Asia, not in the European Union. The Americans have decided that it’s time for America to live in the present. So I thought it was worth going there to say two things to the world.
What things?
Firstly, Hungary remains an interesting, strong, committed, exciting and instructive country; and its Prime Minister is the longest-serving prime minister, who has experience which he can share with the world. Secondly, Hungarians now know that the future lies not where they live, but somewhere else. Now we must fit Hungary into this future, and we cannot remain only within the framework of the European Union. Hungary is ready for this, it’s open, it’s arrived, it’s here.
A little earlier you met Alice Weidel, the leader of Germany’s second largest party. What would you highlight as an experience from that?
I had an extremely interesting meeting with the party leader. It’s been a long time since I had such an experience. European leaders speak the language of liberal journalism, so when they talk about politics, it’s like reading a liberal opinion piece. There’s no edge to what they say. They don’t even know what they want, as if they were ashamed of wanting something. What in Hungary we call the leadership type is gradually being removed from the European spectrum. And now along comes a lady who’s tougher and more forthright than the milquetoast European mainstream: there’s will and imagination in what she says; indeed there’s vision, optimism and strength.
As Donald Trump is about to make peace with Putin, and European leaders are signing a document saying they want to continue the war. This is perhaps the most divisive conflict we’ve ever seen in the transatlantic world.
Indeed, and there’s also a deeper difference of opinion. We Hungarians understand, the Patriots for Europe understand, and indeed Tucker Carlson understands, that the order and logic of Western thinking is changing. Inexorably. This is because the lion called Donald Trump has escaped from the trap and has set to work with a courage that would shame even lions. He didn’t start by making some specific decisions, of course he also did that, but by making it clear that for America what is now good and bad in the world is different from what it was under the Democratic administration. People have been told migration is good, while he says it’s bad. They’ve been told that anyone who talks about peace is a bad person, because war is the right thing to do. But it’s the other way round: peace is good, and war is bad. They used to say that the Green Deal is above everything. Trump says no, because you can’t protect the environment without competitiveness. People were told that Christianity is an outdated, ridiculous thing, and believers are ignorant, stuck in a world predating reason. But Trump has said no, because the community of God-fearing people and the Christian tradition is truly important for a nation. And anyone who respects this is on the right side, precisely the right side. He’s said the same thing about families, he’s said no to any kind of gender, no to any kind of gender reassignment: there are men and women, and anyone who says otherwise is wrong. So far it’s been said that energy is the enemy of good human development; but without cheap energy we cannot create a decent life for people. For us Hungarians all this isn’t news, but something obvious. But this is a liberating transformation in Western thinking; because everything that Trump has just said is sensible and good has up to now been stigmatised and rejected by liberals. Western politicians in Europe want to go against Trump, but they’re no longer able to: the change is coming with such force, and is so much in line with common sense and the natural judgement of human values, that now it’s inevitable. Trump has announced that the policy of saying we support war and killing, regardless of expense, is a wrong approach. By contrast, we’ll make peace – regardless of expense. He’s taken the decisive step: he’s contacted the Russian president, and a serious meeting is being organised. At the same time, it will become clear that it’s not enough to reach an agreement on the Ukrainian war alone, but that the whole world order must be involved in the negotiations. This includes Russia’s place in the world economy, in the world energy system, in the world military and security system, in the European security architecture. And then there’s Ukraine. This will be a big enough package to make an agreement possible. I think it will happen, but yet again the Europeans will miss this boat.
What we’ve been used to since World War II is Europeans following the Americans in lockstep. Yet now the opposite is happening: they’re resisting America for the sake of it. Can this situation change?
European leaders are in a pincer grip. Because on the one hand the US, the dominant player in transatlantic cooperation, is leading the change in values and thinking. And on the other hand, the other jaw of the pincers is the people themselves, who agree with this: they don’t want war, they don’t want migration, they don’t want the Green Deal destroying the family household, they don’t want to see traditional values being mocked, and they don’t want the traditional family model being ridiculed through the promotion of gender politics. And these two things – the changed power structure in the US and the people of Europe – are putting increasing pressure on the liberal, progressive elite in Europe. What does not bend will break.
Can Trump make peace in the foreseeable future?
I think he can.
And can the interests of Europeans be included in that or not?
No. They won’t, because no one will fight for us. If a community doesn’t stand up for itself, doesn’t fight, no one else will stand up for it. If the leaders of Western Europe don’t understand what’s happening, if they don’t get involved, they’ll remain outside of the settlement. But if they remain outside, they’ll have no one to represent their interests. This isn’t the world of moralising essayists, but the world of realpolitik, where hard facts and interests are at stake. If you don’t fight for your people, for your country, you’re simply left out. What Europe is doing now is risking being left out of all the important agreements that will decide our future. We Hungarians will be there in accordance with our own weight. Europe may be left out, but Hungary will always be there, it will always maintain relations, and what’s important to Hungarians will be fought for at every turn.