Zsófia Saliga: Welcome, Dear Viewers. Today we’re not broadcasting from our studio, but from here, the City Hall. This is exceptional, and believe me, my guest today is also exceptional. I’m talking to Prime Minister Viktor Orbán about Salgótarján’s present and future. Welcome to the programme, and thank you for agreeing to this interview.
Good morning, and thank you for inviting me.
Let’s start with the fact that last year the Government needed to step in to prevent Salgótarján from going bankrupt. At that time, János Lázár, Minister of Construction and Transport, visited the city and announced that the Government would help settle the municipality’s accumulated debt of one billion forints. Mayor Bálint Kreicsi has consistently stated that the city administration can’t aim for mere survival, yet the budget situation is crying out for help. How do you see the current situation in Salgótarján, and how can the Government help the city?
When talking about Salgótarján we can choose two vantage points. We can choose a bigger, higher one, a longer-term one – so let’s start with that. And there’s a short-term one, which is what will happen with the budget and what developments can be expected in the short term. I’ve been a Member of Parliament since 1990, I was Prime Minister for the first time in 1998, and at that time I came here to the city. Back then you may have been in the upper grades at elementary school. So since then I’ve been dealing with the future of Salgótarján from a position of responsibility, so to speak. I’m telling you this, because you might not remember it. In 1990, when the communist system came to an end and the economic structure of which Salgótarján was an important part ceased to exist, there were cities – such as Salgótarján – that found themselves in great trouble. Such were Tatabánya, Dunaújváros, Ózd, Miskolc. So there were cities that were built on an industry that from 1990 suddenly had no future. And since then this is the question that’s always been raised: What is the future of these cities, if not that? The real political feat would be if these cities, including Komló, which were the losers in this great industrial transformation that took place in 1990, could find a secure future, a viable new path for themselves. Before our friend Bálint Kreicsi, I don’t even know how many mayors I’ve worked with here to find this path. And Fidesz has always had an idea, especially since Zsolt Becsó became the Member of Parliament here, not just about how to solve the current budget deficit problem, but also about how to find a future. Since 2010 we’ve done a lot to find such a future, and I think the emblematic result of this is that we’ve been able to bring Route 21 here to Salgótarján – essentially connecting Salgótarján to the country’s motorway network, so that it’s connected and not at the world’s end. This is important, but it’s not yet complete. I’ve just been discussing this with the Mayor, for example, and we’ve agreed that we’ll build this relief road – the relief section of Route 21 – and then extend it to the national border. This will open up this town built in a gorge, open it up a little, and connect it to the industrial region of Felvidék [in Slovakia]. I remember that in 2010 unemployment here was around 20–22 per cent. It’s still high, because it’s around 10 per cent, but that’s half of what it used to be. And through the public works system we’ve been able to support a lot of people not with welfare, but with wages. There’s a fairly large Roma population here. So the Roma community is large, and a key issue for the city is ensuring that they have jobs and can earn a living like everyone else. A city can’t cope with a quarter or a third of its population living on welfare. So the key issue for cities with a high Roma population is for the Roma community to find its place in city life and be able to say that they too live from their work like everyone else, rather than being supported by others. If this isn’t resolved, there will be no peace in the city. This is very important. You’re not the only city like this, but you’re one of them. Then we agreed with the Mayor that higher education in the city – which at one point had disappeared – must be strengthened. Now, Óbuda University has already taken action here, and I’ve agreed with the Mayor that we’ll completely renovate the former college building and make it available for use by the University. This is a major investment of 3 billion forints. I think the ground-breaking ceremony will take place soon, although first the plans need to be finalised. Then we agreed with the Mayor that the 1.8–2-billion-forint budget deficit that arose this year – which in fact he inherited – will be covered by the Government. So we’ll send around 2 billion forints here by the end of the year, which will cover this fiscal year. And we’ve also agreed on the amount for 2026 – which will be higher than 2 billion forints – that Salgótarján will receive from the central government in 2026 to ensure that its budget and operations are in order. We’ve also agreed with the Mayor that there are some inner-city roads here that serve as the city’s main arteries, but are owned by the state. One example is Rákóczi út, which isn’t in ideal condition – and we’ve agreed to resurface it, at a cost of around one billion forints. And public utilities will also have to be replaced, which will cost at least another 400–500 million forints. The exact figure isn’t yet known, but I’ve undertaken to do this. The city can count on us using funds from the central budget to resurface the most important road and replace utilities. So we had a very interesting meeting today, because we talked about solving the pressing budget problems and discussed the city’s medium- and long-term plans. I think that now, at around 10:30 a.m., the city’s future looks better than it did at 9 a.m.
That’s for sure. I’d like to go into a little more detail about what you’ve just mentioned. You’ve mentioned a vision for the future, and that while the city administration has to find solutions to everyday problems, it also has to plan for the future. To do this, it’s primarily necessary for young people to stay in the city. And as you mentioned, Óbuda University’s Salgótarján training centre is also working out well, and this is also their goal, in close and effective cooperation with the city administration. The fruits of this cooperation are already visible, as this year more people than ever before have applied for training courses in Salgótarján.
Three times as many...
That’s right! And more than a hundred people have been accepted, mainly locals. What role do you think an increasingly popular and well-functioning university will play in the future of Salgótarján?
Well, if you draw the plan of a city, let’s say you see it as a circle, then the question is always whether the city has everything it needs for a full urban life. If a city’s services are complete, it means that no one will leave just because something is missing. The fact is that people will leave because something is better elsewhere. Let’s say that New York has better universities than Salgótarján, and the most talented two or three people go there – and they may also go to Budapest because it’s better than here. But they’re not leaving because there’s nothing here: they’re not escaping, they’re making a rational decision. So if the city can offer a complete range of urban services in all segments, a full life, then people are more likely to stay here. What does this mean? In order to have higher education, high-quality secondary education, not just grammar schools but also vocational training, and an intellectual life in the city, we need teachers. There must be a justice system with judges and prosecutors. There must be doctors and a healthcare service here that doesn’t give you the impression that they can’t cure you; so there must be a hospital, and people must be able to say “Yes, we have a good hospital and they can treat us here locally.” There should be sports and leisure facilities so that people can not only work here, but also enjoy their lives after work. And if all this is in place, they should be able to get around and be connected to the country’s networks, roads, railways, and the internet. So if you have all this, you have a complete city. And then local people will decide whether to stay or leave; but even if they do leave, it won’t be because they can’t live in Salgótarján, but because they want something else or something more. This is why in such cases a city’s power to retain its population increases. Now the problem with Salgótarján is that it’s not yet complete: a city can’t be complete without higher education, because talented young people can’t make the decision to study here in the city. I think the city is now facing a major change, because in the past it lost this ability – but now it will regain it. I think you owe a debt of gratitude – and we all owe a debt of gratitude – to Óbuda University for launching this department here and agreeing to increase the number of students. And we, as the Government, will undertake to provide the halls of residence, educational institutions and spaces necessary for more students. This is a good collaboration: city, university, state.
To stay here, sooner or later these young people will need jobs. But that requires investors. You’ve mentioned the conversion of Route 21 into a dual carriageway, and further developments. In recent years, reaching Salgótarján from Budapest has become very quick, easy and convenient. This may be attractive to investors. However, it’s also true that there are currently hardly any contiguous greenfield or brownfield sites in the city where new plants and factories could be built. In light of this, what opportunities do you see for job creation?
In Hungary there are two ways to create jobs: one is without state intervention, and the other is with state assistance. There are regions in the country to which investors flock because they’re already considered to be successful business centres, with thriving industrial parks and well-developed services. Even if the state does nothing, there will still be investors. And there are places where this isn’t the case. This even happens with cities larger than Salgótarján, such as Pécs. So if the state doesn’t help Pécs and doesn’t bring in investors, then no serious industrial capacity will be created there. Salgótarján is the same: they won’t come here automatically. We have an institution called HIPA [Hungarian Investment Promotion Agency], which is the Government’s institutional system for promoting foreign investment. It’s a successful institution with talented people working there, and they’ve attracted a great deal of investment to Hungary from other countries. They usually recommend investment locations, and I’ve now agreed with the Mayor that they’ll add Salgótarján to the list of municipalities where significant industrial investment should be brought as soon as possible. The question is, this: Is there any land available? While we’re talking here, Minister Lázár and the Mayor are discussing what land MÁV [Hungarian State Railways] can transfer to the city, and what state-owned land there is in the vicinity of the city that could be used for industrial purposes if it’s transferred to the city. We’ll see what they come up with, but I’m confident that Minister Lázár will find a solution.
What’s your view on how much the previous and current city administrations have done to attract new investors here?
Well, it is always possible to criticise one’s predecessors, especially when for ten years the city administration wasn’t from our own political family. But that leads nowhere. Incidentally, I had a good working relationship with the previous mayor, so as Prime Minister I don’t want to say anything bad about him – nor can I. But undoubtedly the pace wasn’t what we’re used to in Fidesz. So when we’re in position somewhere, something happens – that’s when we act. And I’m not dwelling on the last ten years – I’m saying we should make the next ten years a success. And this, of course, depends on the Government. So it’s very important that you have a good Member of Parliament – which I think you have – and an ambitious mayor. You’re very lucky that a person at a good age has taken on the role, so while at the helm of the city he’s not winding down, but still wants to do new things. And you need a government that has Salgótarján as part of its vision for the future. This will be decided in the elections, which will take place in April 2026. And here in Salgótarján you need to know that I’ll be coming back here a few more times to talk to people, and you need to know that this will be an important election. Now that the entire European economy has been shaken and burdened by the war, European decision-makers are making plans and decisions that are bad for Hungary. This is why we must stay out of misguided European economic policy and stay out of the war. If we succeed in this, then Salgótarján can develop. But if our money is sent to Ukraine, if we’re pushed into war, and if we don’t pursue a national economic policy but instead do what Brussels forces on us, then it’s game over for Salgótarján. Then we can only put these development plans on hold and wait for the following period, and better governments. Without a national government, Salgótarján cannot thrive, and with a Brussels government, Salgótarján can only lose. I’ve made a list for myself so that if the people of Salgótarján ask what we’ve done for Salgótarján over the past ten to fifteen years, I’ll be able to answer them. We have quite an impressive list, because we’ve halved unemployment, for example, and we’ve connected Route 21 – and thus eastern Nógrád County – to the national bloodstream. Every municipality, not just Salgótarján, has been renewed and has received financial opportunities, while smaller municipalities in Hungary hadn’t received funding for a very long time. We’ve allocated more than 33 billion forints to healthcare in this constituency. Pásztó also received some of this, but most of it came here. The Modern Oncology Centre is, of course, a state-funded project. We’ve also invested significantly in the district, including Hollókő and Szentkút, preserving tourist attractions, ecclesiastical heritage and industrial-historical sites. So it can be said that what’s happened in Salgótarján and its surroundings has been almost exclusively funded by the state. But I’ll say it again: it doesn’t matter how it happened, because now we have it. The city administration was what it was, and now I think the Mayor is trying, as I advised him, to somehow unite the city in pursuit of common goals. It doesn’t matter what anyone did in the past ten years – let’s talk about the next ten years.
Yes, the current city administration believes that Salgótarján’s future can be built by working closely with the Government. Currently under development is the so-called SAS plan, which will contain the city’s medium- and long-term urban development strategy. Something similar has already been implemented in Debrecen, where it’s called the Phoenix Plan: the city will receive more than 200 billion forints in development funds – albeit as part of a long process, but that amount will arrive there. Do you think it’s conceivable that similar complex development support will come to Salgótarján?
There’s a joint effort underway between the Government’s construction department and the leadership of Salgótarján, which is attempting to revitalise the entire city in some way – meaning not just certain areas, but developing a large-scale urban reconstruction and reorganisation plan for the entire city. This will require significant funding, which experts are working on, and it can be done. I repeat, there are two conditions: Hungary shouldn’t have a Brusselite government, and Salgótarján should have a pro-government leadership. If the Government and Salgótarján aren’t pulling in the same direction, and there isn’t a national government that wants to help provincial cities like Salgótarján, then no kind of plan will be implemented. I believe it’s in Salgótarján’s best interests to have a pro-government city leadership. This city can’t gain momentum without cooperation with the Government. This is the experience I’ve gathered over the thirty-odd years I’ve been involved with Salgótarján.
Looking ahead, we hope for the best. Prime Minister, thank you very much for this conversation.
I wish you every success. If what I said is true, that you were in the upper grades at elementary school when I first visited here as Prime Minister, then I hope that in the coming terms we’ll be able to meet again in the same roles we have now, and talk about the successes of Salgótarján.
Thank you very much, I hope so too! Dear viewers, thank you for your attention. See you again soon!