Dániel Bohár: Hi, everyone! After the Peace March, Brussels. We’re on our way to the European Union leaders’ meeting. On the way I’ll be asking questions of Viktor Orbán, Prime Minister of Hungary. You said that today’s Peace March could be seen from space. Is it different to arrive in Brussels like this?
It’s difficult to arrive in Brussels after a Peace March, because your adrenaline is still pumping, your blood pressure is high, and, quite simply, it’s not easy to speak in front of such a huge crowd – perhaps an unprecedentedly huge crowd. Emotions are also stirred up by 1956, so you find yourself in a slightly different state. But by the time I get to the meeting room, everything will be fine: adrenaline, pulse, blood pressure. Politically speaking, the job I have now is an easy one. At the EU summit we want to achieve two goals: we don’t want to let the Ukrainians in, and we don’t want to let our money out. Hungary is currently the only country that represents this position publicly, in a way that’s open to debate and is combative – that accepts conflict. This is why we’re under enormous pressure. There are others who think the same, and perhaps when it comes to the vote they’ll break cover; but for now we’re the only ones with our heads above the parapet. And this is why, when it comes to the issue of Ukraine and related financial matters, at every opportunity and at the summit, enormous pressure is being placed on me and on Hungary. But when I arrive after a Peace March, the matter has been settled. It’s not about what I think – nor even about what the Hungarian government thinks. Brussels isn’t at the world’s end: they receive news, and everyone can see that Hungary has a position, and this is the position of the people, of the Hungarian nation. We shall not budge from it, and there’s no point in attacking the Hungarian prime minister – especially not vehemently. In such situations my job is always easier.
There’s one complication, which is that we’ll arrive in Brussels at around six or seven o’clock in the evening. Who will be holding the fort until then?
Until then the Hungarian position will be represented by [Prime Minister of Slovakia] Robert Fico. What’s happened is that I wrote down the Hungarian position on the Ukrainian question and related financial issues and gave it to Mr. Fico, asking him to confirm it verbally if needed. I’ve been informed that he did so, he stood his ground, and represented the Hungarian position. So things aren’t as bad as they might be: they may have started with this, but they haven’t finished it. Now there are other issues. By the time I arrive they’ll be talking about something else, but in the end they’ll be forced to return to Ukraine because they couldn’t even agree among themselves. So I’ll still have some work to do.
Today there was the Peace March. But recent weeks have been dominated by talk of the Budapest Peace Summit, which – as we can conclude from Minister Péter Szijjártó’s negotiations yesterday – will take place. The question is when. From this perspective, how will you feel arriving in Brussels today?
The Peace March and the peace summit are two sides of the same coin. The peace summit will be held in Hungary because there is the Peace March – which is Europe’s largest pro-peace movement and which, incidentally, gives Hungary its government. So of course on a party basis the Hungarian government is provided by Fidesz, but its mass power and mass support are provided by the Peace March and similar large civic movements. So, if there are such civic movements, there’s a pro-peace government; and if there’s a pro-peace government that’s brave and skilful enough, then there will be a peace summit in Budapest. There will be a peace summit in Budapest.
What else do the people in Brussels want to push through today?
They want to bring Ukraine closer to EU membership. We’ve stopped that. The other thing is that they want to have more financial support at their disposal, but we’ve stopped that for the time being. And they want to have control over the fate of the Russian state’s frozen currency reserves. This is a complicated and difficult issue, and we don’t support Brussels’ proposal to essentially confiscate them and transfer them to Ukraine.
Will this raise economic issues for Europe and Hungary?
There are several problems. The first thing is that the Russians – but it doesn’t matter who it is – placed their currency reserves in European banks. This is a large amount, say, more than a hundred billion, held by a company called Euroclear, with 25 billion held by other private banks. There are contracts and guarantees for all of these deposits. In Europe it’s good business for other countries around the world to keep part of their money in euros, in the EU currency, depositing it in Europe. But if we take away even a single country’s reserves, this business will be finished, and when it comes to depositing their reserves no one in their right mind will ever trust any European financial institution again. That’s the first problem. The second problem is that this will lead to lawsuits, because there’s no international legal basis for us disposing of someone else’s money. Thirdly, the issue of frozen Russian assets is also part of the US–Russian negotiations: if we do something now and do it wrong, we’ll ruin the chances of Russian–American peace negotiations. And fourthly, the Russians will take countermeasures. Last week I had an exchange of letters with the Russian president, in which I formally asked for his position on whether there would be Russian countermeasures if such a decision were made in Brussels – for example, whether Russia would seize the assets of companies from Western European countries. Large Hungarian companies have significant assets in Russia. In his reply, the Russian president wrote that yes, there would be countermeasures. When I asked whether they’d differentiate between EU countries based on whether they supported the confiscation of Russian assets, they said that of course they’d differentiate. From this point on, it’s in Hungary’s fundamental economic interests not to support this and not to fall within the scope of Russian countermeasures. That could destabilise the largest Hungarian companies.
So the point is that, in essence, the EU elite can hack into the peace summit efforts and the equilibrium that the Russians are trying to achieve with the Americans?
The EU is in a strange situation, and we need to think responsibly. In my opinion, given that a Russian–American peace summit is imminent, there should be no substantive negotiations on the Ukrainian issue today. We need to do two things. First, we should do nothing now, so as not to reduce the chances of a Russian–American agreement. And second, as I’ve been suggesting for a long time at every meeting, and will do again today, although it’s never accepted, the European Union should start negotiations with Russia on its own. Perhaps we’ll get there one day.
We’ll see how this turns out. We’ll talk more later. Thank you very much for your attention, and we’ll be in touch again from Brussels. Bye everyone!